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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:17 pm 
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SR3R suggested decking rules from DSF:



Decking
Rules:
A) Drop response increase in favor of mental-initiative boosting cyber (like a VCR)
1. Should be capped by deck
2. Include 'mental initiative' cyberware/stat
3. Have multiple ratings for datajacks
B) Backdoor Utility, eliminates sculpting when not useful
1. Made for legitimate deckers, illegal deckers may locate, log on to 'utility metaphor' resource. Modifies the value for certain TNs like null ops, file ops, search
C) Further combine system ops
1. Merge Locate Slave and Locate File (which have different thresholds)
2. Rework Analyze Icon to fall more in line with other tests
D) Persona attributes can be redistributed with a complex action while in the system
1. Optional rule: you can go above the MPCP limit by paying 2 MPCP pts per attribute point
E) Current rules hold that an IC has persona ratings equivalent to its rating, while deckers can distribute them. Should this be changed?
F) Agent rules are kinder, allowing a decker to have multiple agents. Drones are agents with bodies (SR4)
1. Matrix and rigger simsense are interchangable, allowing deckers to interact with CCSS and drones
G) AR allows for people to do simple things without physically disengaging from the real world (SR4)
H/J) Everyone should be able to use AR and therefore the matrix, making the computer skill much more common
I) All electronic devices (including cyber) can be connected to the matrix and thereby hacked (SR4)
1. ACIFS of 2*rating for all areas
2. ACIFS of rating + 4
J/V) System tally interaction between host and the system
1. Tally accumulated on an LTG is passed down to PLTGs, hosts below, but not vice versa
2. RTG tally is NOT passed to LTGs, PLTGs or to other RTGs
3. All hosts on a PLTG share that PLTG's tally, the PLTG's tally is equal to that of the highest tally of its constituent hosts
K) IC should have to spend time searching rather than immediately appear next to the decker after the tally has increased
L) The decker should be able to directly deceive the IC, not JUST the host
1. Decker should be able to 'repaint' himself and other Icons, possibly confusing the host as to which icon is bad
M) A legitimate user who commits an illegal operation may be dumped with no tests
1. Only users without masking can be dumped
N) (This space available)
O) Nezumi's matrix metaphor - host as a physical facility with stationary guards, searching guards, security tally based by approximate location:
1. IC activates instantly, but it takes time to FIND the decker based on local activity and rating
2. A search is a Analyze Icon cycle on all local icons until a suspicious one is found
- IC can attack the wrong icon if it looks to be suspicious
- Evade detection puts the decker farther away and increases time for the search
3. Security tally is applied to the lowest level possible, to the user (if legitimate), region, host, system, grid in that order
- A system may decide to try and isolate a decker by disallowing traffic from a high-tally area
- Note suggestion J
4. IC serve as the host's eyes. If IC has a visual lock on the decker, other IC can find him immediately and the user may be dumped
5. Stationary IC will analyze every icon that interacts with a given node or resource(s) and will automatically attack suspicious icons, regardless as to their tally
6. Increases in alert levels are system-wide, and possibly network wide
7. User databases always have "trap" or stationary IC
8. A host can have a maximum number of IC equal to Security Rating times Security Level (blue=1, etc.), and can support 1/4 that amount of trap IC
P) Hacking pool should have more basis on skill or attributes
1. (Int + Wil + MPCP/2)/3
2. (Int + Wil + Computer skill)/3
Q) Create a 'false positive' background count for security tally
1. 1d6-1 for >50 users, 2d6-2 50-500, 3d6-3 >500
-For ease of calculation, drop the -1/-2/-3 and just start the sheaf higher
2. Is tally based on the host, the network, the PLTG, or the most popular host connected to it?
3. Should background tally be linked to the rating of the host? Red 4d6, Orange 3d6, etc.?
4. Tally decreases by 6 for blue, 4 for green, 2 for orange, 1 for red every twenty minutes, + die roll again
R) Tunneled Connection operation - Simple Action every turn to maintain a connection through the chokepoints, which allows for your Masking, makes Encephalon useful
1. What if the deck allowed for certain 'sustained' actions?
2. In complex network diagrams, decker has to tunnel through intermediate hosts to hide his trail
3. Security tally in inhereted downwards, RTG->LTG->Host->Subhost
-RTGs don't pass tally, LTG's pass tally but don't receive tally, PLTG's share tally between all hosts
4. Tunneling doesn't take actions, but imposes initiative penalties based on the rating of the chokepoint
S) Deck construction... Too complex? Becoming unnecessary?
1. Allow decks to sustain certain actions like tunnel firewall
2. Decks bottleneck mental initiative
3. Drop memory costs
4. MPCP limits number of programs and processes running
T) Tally accumulates too fast to allow for matrix overwatch
1. Operations involving Index subsystem, Analyze utility don't accumulate tally
2. Add an operation that lowers your tally?
3. Tally decreases over time, assuming no further illegal operations (may increase more though, due to null ops and background tally)
- Tally decreases by 6 for blue, 4 for green, 2 for orange, 1 for red every twenty minutes
4. Increase space between attacks on the sheaf
- This helps matrix overwatch, but makes datasteals too easy
5. Null Ops. may DECREASE the security tally
U) Evasion or IC rating should be the TN for cybercombat tests, IC's attack program for damage
V) Detection factor is overused. Define difference between Evasion and Masking
1. Evasion is Matrix agility, ability to keep out of sight and out of combat.
- TN to hit your icon in matrix combat is based off Evasion
- Interception Factor (IF) starts at Evasion*2 (Rating*2 for IC)
i IF serves as TN for Trace IC to lock on
ii IF affects how other icons can find your icon
iii At low levels, IF is legal, like a spam filter
2. Masking is matrix stealth, the ability of your deck to keep the host from noticing changes made
- DF is Masking*2 (Rating*2 for IC)
- DF is the TN the host uses to RESIST any changes you attempt to make
- DF is the TN other Icons use for Analyze functions
3. Obscure Icon - Complex action, System test vs. TN of Index - Evasion, successes add to IF for X time
4. Distract Icon - opposed test of Skill vs. enemy's Sensor, enemies skill vs. your Evasion. Net successes counter enemy's scanning successes
5. Analyze Icon, like Deep scanning, except successes are cumulative
6. (See also L)
Y) Break scanning into two types
1. Simple scanning, free action, done by default, uses Sensor rating
2. Deep Scanning, complex action, uses Computer Skill + Hacking Pool
3. Both types target all icons on the host, TN equal to Targets IF - Scanner utility, level of success like normal perception test (1 - you see something, 2 - type, etc.) Successes are not cumulative
4. "Mobile" IC would use deep scans, searching icons in apparently random order.
Z) Decker's perception in the matrix - should it exist and what feeds into it?


Problems:
1. Detection factor is too important, but never above 7 at chargen. It should be higher.
- Due to the exponential growth of TN difficulties, a DF of 16 is largely unbeatable. Is 7-16 a wide enough range?
2. Multiple systems for deckers, one quicker for interaction with non-decking PCs, one more expansive, both equivalent except for speed and detail
3. Determine if programming tools is too easy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:13 pm 
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Do we have a list of the things we agreed on, and thus took off of the lettered list?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:37 pm 
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And, another one for the List: (Edited: 2/1/08)

AA) There are really four technical Active skills that a decker really ought to have to consider himself a real decker: Electronics, Electronics B/R, Computer, Computer B/R. Unfortunately, just about everything that the decker really ever needs to do (deck, search, write programs, cybercombat) are all part of the single Computer skill. Maybe we can shift around what each skill covers, so that your competent decker would need high scores in all 4 to truly fill the role? For instance:


-1) Rather than the (IMO silly) distinction between Computer and Electronics, how about Computer and Decking?

--a) Decking would be the... less reputable stuff. Anything that involves subterfuge, or fooling the system would be covered (Access and Control, naturally, but also cybercombat and Null Operations, as both deal with directly subverting, rather than actually working with or within, the system.) Copying/editing a file/slave without the system knowing, or when the system is trying to prevent it, would also fit here. You'd also use this for picking electronic locks and the like, as those are all basically computers.

--b) Computer would cover tasks that are themselves complex. Search operations, for example. Looping cameras would be a very simple Computer test, while actively editing the camera to make a person appear invisible would be a bit tougher. Generally speaking, someone with high Decking and low Computer would be able to get in and get out of a system easily, and could force the system to do whatever he wanted, but wouldn't be capable of actually doing what he needed to do once he got there.

-2) Computer B/R would be the new programming skill. Thus, rather than building computer hardware, the B/R skill would in other words be building and repairing computer programs. Maybe you can also use this to "repair" programs hit by Tar IC?

-3) Electronics B/R would now basically be the catch-all for what's left. Building computer hardware, other electronics hardware, etc. would go here. Most of those aren't used enough to constitute their own skill, really, and most are simple enough to be cross-compatible. Note that there is no more "Electronics" skill; anything that would be covered in that skill is clearly either Computer or Decking anyway.

--a)Should Electronics Warfare go here, or under Computer or Decking? Maybe a totally different Active Skill? *shrug*


Last edited by Eyeless Blond on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:08 pm 
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[quote]
-1) Rather than the (IMO silly) distinction between Computer and Electronics, how about Computer and Decking?
--a)Computer would cover search operations, as well as anything involving using an attached resource to a computer system (eg. anything involving Index, File and Slave subsystems). Looping cameras, editing files, etc. You'd also use this for picking electronic locks and the like, as thos are all basically computers.[/quote]

I'd agree with this. I have a computer science degree and my work is generally computer security, but I still have problems doing good google searches :P Just because I know what a man-in-the-middle attack is doesn't mean I know how to do a mail merge. So I guess Computer would include most of the stuff your average customer service IT person and administrative assistant would do (or really, what your average video gamer who owns his own custom rig would know).


[quote]
-2) Computer B/R would be the new programming skill. Thus, rather than building computer hardware, the B/R skill would in other words be building and repairing computer programs. Maybe you can also use this to "repair" programs hit by Tar IC?[/quote]

I always thought that was the way :P (That's a word of support)

[quote]
-3) Electronics B/R would now basically be the catch-all for what's left. Building computer hardware, other electronics hardware, etc. would go here. Most of those aren't used enough to constitute their own skill, really, and most are simple enough to be cross-compatible.[/quote]

This I'm not sure about (in part because you haven't said what 'electronics' is). I can't imagine electronics is just how to use electronic devices. I can't think of a lot of electronic devices that would really warrant my having a specialized skill JUST to use them (the exception being electronic warfare). Before EW, I just assumed Electronics was all things technical and about electronics, so overcoming keypads, build/repair, and what few EW actions are available in the main book. Otherwise electronics becomes really pretty useless.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Forgot your list...

Accepted Items:
Decking
A) Combined functions (see decking thread)
B) Validate and invalidate Account works only on main user database. All other Validate functions can be used anywhere
C) Link utilities are removed, only HW is required for a wireless link
D) Sleaze has been removed. Masking alone determined Detection Factor.
E) Combat utilities use decker's skill with program rating determining power. Killjoy and Black Hammer determine damage based on the host
F) Guardian is now gone, replaced by appropriate security hardware
G) Hacking pool can be exchanged for Detection Factor
H) Tally is kept system wide, brought up to the tally of the highest individual on the host
I) Detection modes are removed
J) Redirect Datatrail success adds +1 to the Location cycle (making it take longer, not harder)
K) IC are just frame agents loaded with appropriate programs
L) Prices for non-illegal decks should be moved from the Matrix book to the main manual


Dropped Items:
Decking
-Should maneuvers be kept?
-Should memory sizes be dropped?

-How to handle multiple deckers
- Every decker has his own tally, highest tally determines IC, only one copy of IC shows up
X Too easy to mob and overpower IC
- User and host have tally counts. Every point of tally on a system adds one to the user who - Keep an account of everything the host is running. Once it goes to high, processes begin to die (IC, programs, etc.)
triggered it and to the tally of the host itself. Anytime a decker joins a host that has a tally less than he does, the host's tally rises to that of the decker
X Involves most bookkeeping



I still wouldn't mind re-opening the decker tally issue :P


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:51 pm 
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nezumi wrote:
Quote:
-2) Computer B/R would be the new programming skill. Thus, rather than building computer hardware, the B/R skill would in other words be building and repairing computer programs. Maybe you can also use this to "repair" programs hit by Tar IC?
I always thought that was the way :P (That's a word of support)
Yeah, right now it's a specialization of Computers. The result is that a decker these days needs exactly one skill, two if he plans to actually build his deck along with his programs (Computer B/R)

Quote:
Quote:
-3) Electronics B/R would now basically be the catch-all for what's left. Building computer hardware, other electronics hardware, etc. would go here. Most of those aren't used enough to constitute their own skill, really, and most are simple enough to be cross-compatible.

This I'm not sure about (in part because you haven't said what 'electronics' is). I can't imagine electronics is just how to use electronic devices. I can't think of a lot of electronic devices that would really warrant my having a specialized skill JUST to use them (the exception being electronic warfare). Before EW, I just assumed Electronics was all things technical and about electronics, so overcoming keypads, build/repair, and what few EW actions are available in the main book. Otherwise electronics becomes really pretty useless.
Yeah, there would basically be no more Electronics (non-B/R) skill anymore. You'd use Electronics B/R to mess with hardware, Computer B/R to mess with software, and either Decking or Computer to do things with software. Generally it's Computer if it's using programs in legal, intended ways, and Decking if trying to find an exploit or weakness in the code for B/E or other purposes.

Editing a camera, for instance, would require Decking if you wanted to just loop the camera, but if you wanted to hack the camera *and* splice in custom footage you'd need to also use Computer skill (and/or maybe a Cinematography knowledge skill check :)) to determine how well you were able to conjure up a fake input to splice in.

I could see EW being a part of the Decking skill, or even part of the Computer skill. Honestly, though, signal processing and its ilk is pretty much a skill of its own, and I'd really like to see it be its own skill.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:08 pm 
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My only complaint would be the grey area between computer and decking. For instance, if I go in with an illegal account an action is decking, however if I validate myself, does it become computer? What about inserting text into a file, is that computer or decking?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:11 pm 
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nezumi wrote:
I still wouldn't mind re-opening the decker tally issue :P
What for? Having tally mapped to individual deckers doesn't make much sense. If you did it that way, you could use a successful Deception check to fake like you're a new or different existing user and reset your tally to 0. Unless the host, seeking to prevent this, preemptively boosts every user, past and present, up to the tally level of the highest current user, which is essentially what H) does.

No, I think it's better to keep H), where security tally is basically a measure of that host's general unease toward its security situation. A host with a high security tally is basically "sensing a disturbance in the Force"; though it can't pin down who or what is causing the problem, it knows something is probably going on. Think about it a moment: if a host could pin tally down to a particular Icon, why would it keep that Icon around? Why not just aggressively kill its connection the moment the tally goes above 0? The only way tally really makes sense is if 1) it can occur for reasons other than a real security breach (which implies that random background tally should exist, see suggestion Q), and 2) if the host has no real idea where it's coming from, and thus can't do anything drastic like resetting everyone's connections or restarting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:25 pm 
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No, I think tally should be 'regional'. In a huge host, the host knows approximately where the problem is (say, in personnel files) and sends IC there. The IC appears almost immediately, but can't tell precisely who is the trouble maker. If a decker trips an alarm and immediately zooms elsewhere, he never sees the IC at all. However, the general tally in this new part of the same massive host is lower than the region where the decker left (although higher than the default level). Additionally, a smart decker can paint another icon as being more suspicious than he is, so the IC attacks that fellow instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:59 pm 
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nezumi wrote:
My only complaint would be the grey area between computer and decking. For instance, if I go in with an illegal account an action is decking, however if I validate myself, does it become computer? What about inserting text into a file, is that computer or decking?
Well, according to the proposed definitions, Decking is all about deceiving a host into allowing something that shouldn't be allowed, like logging into a host or editing a file/slave without leaving a trail. Computer skill is about doing things where the task itself is complex, like doing a complex data search.

For example, if you're doing it legitimately, there's no test for something like editing a text file, though there might be a test to see how well your edit deceives the people viewing it later (Forgery knowledge skill or something similar). Editing a camera to create a loop would be a Decking test to determine if you can deceive the host (assuming you're doing it clandestinely; otherwise there'd be no test), followed by a relatively simple Computer test to actually do it. Actively editing the camera to, say, actively edit a runner team out while keeping the rest of the feed "live", would be a more complex Computer test.

That's the real problem with making these changes; to be perfectly logical about the application you'd have to maybe make multiple tests to do some things, like editing cameras, because you're really doing two different things. Right now we don't have to worry about that because Computer skill covers both clandestinely accessing a camera as well as forcing it to do things one would normally not expect a camera to do.

nezumi wrote:
No, I think tally should be 'regional'. In a huge host, the host knows approximately where the problem is (say, in personnel files) and sends IC there. The IC appears almost immediately, but can't tell precisely who is the trouble maker. If a decker trips an alarm and immediately zooms elsewhere, he never sees the IC at all. However, the general tally in this new part of the same massive host is lower than the region where the decker left (although higher than the default level). Additionally, a smart decker can paint another icon as being more suspicious than he is, so the IC attacks that fellow instead.
Oh yeah, that weird "regions" metaphor. I still have a hard time understanding that. I think that debate is easily something that could occupy a thread all by itself--IIRC it actually did when it was back on SR3.


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